http://reboot.cc/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=160&view=unread#unread

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Is there anyone apart from me MAJORLY concerned about the direction that Rainmaker are (or should I say aren't) going with ReBoot?

I've been following the comic and it's gone from a shaky start to a large floating turd utilising the characters we know and love in a storyline that couldn't be more detatched from the series if it tried.

I am not liking this at all.

Nor am I liking that fact that there is no REAL news on the movie front.

Jon Cooksey is gone, that much is certain... but where is the replacement writer?
Where is the involvement from Gavin and Ian which you may as well admit is what this project really needs to keep it's head above water.

So what do we get? A survey!!! What the dell use is a survey?!?
Not even a good survey!

It just seems like some half-assed attempt at throwing a bone to the fans to make them believe that there is some actual progress when in reality they have nothing (prove me wrong, I dare you).

Before the launch of the Rainmaker initiative a small group of die-hard (including myself) were involved in a teleconference with Paul Gertz (et al) to discuss which direction it should take... but on reflection it was a publicity exercise to get the more vocal and active fans to start the ball rolling without incurring any real cost. Cheap advertising.

The same can be said for Gertz's appearance that the New York Comic Con. No real questions answered just more of the same stalling techniques.

As an active and loyal fan of the series I am starting to notice a trend and am majorly beginning to distrust the P.R. machine at Rainmaker. I'm sorry to cast a shadow over the "three movies" they announced but at this moment in time I just don't hold any stock that they will materialize. I do not think there will be ANY real movement until they see the sales figures from the season 1-4 DVD release next year.

The reason I say this is simple... look at the big picture, the Rainmaker version of progress is just not making sense, it's hollow and contradictary. Something they may have failed to take into consideration is that fans like myself are monitoring the project objectively and from outside the confines of ReBoot.com website and fan forums.

Rainmaker... your silence is deafening.
Start producing some REAL results.
Because you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

And some of us are getting to the point where the veil is going to be lifted.

I wish I didn't agree with most of this. I always knew that behind it all, it's a marketing exercise, but that's not the part that bothers me. It's that it's evolved into a bad marketing exercise. We need a definitive answer above all else: What is happening at Rainmaker right now? The longer they keep secrets from us, the more people will drop off their list of supporters.

Well I've recently asked Gertz what's happening... got no CLEAR answer other then what more or less comes to "things are being done behind the scenes....", they just won't say WHAT exactly.

More details I'd love to give, but what I can and cannot say from these emails is always a tricky one.

I agree with you Justice, you bring a lot of valid points.

Something I'd like to add though, you said "I do not think there will be ANY real movement until they see the sales figures from the season 1-4 DVD release next year."Gertz said they would only do that if there is a majority fan input for them. For all we know, it could not even happen next year or ever.

Well there goes all my hopes down the drain. I hope I am wrong.

Quoted from Squall142

I agree with you Justice, you bring a lot of valid points.

Something I'd like to add though, you said "I do not think there will be ANY real movement until they see the sales figures from the season 1-4 DVD release next year."Gertz said they would only do that if there is a majority fan input for them. For all we know, it could not even happen next year or ever.

Yeah, he says a lot of things... not wishing to cast aspersions or anything but others who were on board the project seem to tell it like it is.

Does anyone know what is going on?

Wait, that's the Facebook page of a person who was on the project?

...

This is awful.

Yeah.  I had to censor it so not to get anyone in trouble.
But these things need to be addressed.

We're led to believe that the project is very much active and we, the fans, are steering it's direction.
I think the truth is very much detatched from the "reported reality" Rainmaker are giving out.

Sorry to place a downer on the whole thing, but I agree with LadyLazuli and we're all being cheated into partaking in some badly constructed PR exercise for Rainmaker.
I for one just can't stand to see the people I consider to be my friends being taken for a ride.



As I said in the thread title... this is an opinion.
I would LOVE to be proven wrong.  But I doubt this will happen any time soon.

Quoted from Popeye

"That's all I can stand, I can't stands no more"

~sigh~ I just... don't know how to respond to it.

What scared me is the email I just received:

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Thank you for joining the survey team. The User Experience team is excited to get your insights on ReBoot as it was, as it is, and what it will be.

What is next?

You will be involved in 10 weekly surveys; including the one you already completed. Each survey will include around 3-5 questions related to a specific topic. These topics will range from 'What activities you take part in on the Internet?' to 'How would you fit into the ReBoot Universe?'. While participating in the surveys, the best answer is a honest one. And, if you don't have any thoughts on a question; skip it.

10 WEEKLY SURVEYS?!

Do they really believe we'll come back each week to fill out this 5 question survey? Why can't they throw it at us right now?

Wait... what are they trying to learn by asking "How would you fit into the ReBoot Universe?"... really now, where does that help them? The only thing that comes to mind is extra character ideas when the time comes, so they don't have to worry about thinking up some original ones.

Wouldn't a better question be "What do you want us to do with ReBoot?"?

Oh, and no followup email for me after completing the survey.

Quoted from GlitchBob

Oh, and no followup email for me after completing the survey.

This email came today after I filled out the first one like last week... and it arrived today...

To me this sounds like a bunch of crap to prolong the whole process as long as possible. If the surveys come out once a week for ten weeks, that leads us into January. I'm guessing there's a lot of stuff undecided on with the direction of the movies so Rainmaker is trying to keep us interested and involved with ReBoot while they figure things out. Unless I'm completely wrong and there's some stuff actually developing... of course GlitchBob can't say what he knows though due to confidentiality. Right now, I think fans just need some knowledge in what stage the creative team is at. Is there a developing plot, the same characters... heck, do they even have a writer?

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3. If you could rename ReBoot.com, what would you call it?

Are they serious?

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4. What is your favourite fansite and why? (excluding reboot.com)

Okay... now I'm relatively pissed off. This sounds like a generic survey...

Am I going crazy, or did I see somewhere on ReBoot.com that they were doing to surveys because they're acknowledging that there aren't as many comic viewers as there were people signed up on the site? I'm trying to find the exact quote but I can't seem to find it anymore. Did anyone else see that written anywhere? I must be going mad.

If that's the case, and they're doing it because of low viewership, then why ask us what we want? Rainmaker most likely has at least a decent PR or marketing department. Have the higher ups in that department take a good look at ReBoot.com and they should have *some* idea of what to add to make it more fan friendly. They don't need us telling them! Heck, look at the past ReBoot.com's and study what they had in terms of content. It's not that hard to see what fans want. If they do, then they don't know their audience very well.

Quoted from GlitchBob

Sounds like you're talking about the newsletter about the survey, which not too many people got... even if the only indicator of that is how many said they didn't to those that did in the "Take the survey" topic.

ThePhantomSquee posted the email, this part is what I think you're referring to:

"We have been looking at the number of visits to the site; realized that thousands of people who signed up for this newsletter haven't been following the weekly webcomic."

That's the one. Thanks.

I agree. It really surprises me how many fans are randomly scattered around the internet, and still don't know what's going on. Everything's way too hush hush. If there even is anything to be hush hush about.

As far as Rainmaker goes, here's some stuff I've dug up:

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November 14th
VANCOUVER, B.C. - Rainmaker Entertainment Inc. (TSX:RNK) said Friday it lost $903,000 in its most recent quarter compared with a loss of $314,000 in the same period last year.

The loss amounted to five cents per share for the three months ended Sept. 30 compared with a loss of two cents per share a year ago. Revenue in the quarter totalled $10 million, up from $8.3 million.

Rainmaker said Thursday that it has closed the sale of EP Canada and Canada Film Capital for $11.2 million cash, a $500,000 subordinated debenture with a five-year maximum term and a contingent cash payment of up to $2.75 million based on revenue targets.

Shares in the company, which reported its results after the close of markets, closed up 10 cents at $1 on the Toronto Stock Exchange.

Here's the stock value of Rainmaker from January of this year til now:

Quoted from LadyLazuli

That's the one. Thanks.

I agree. It really surprises me how many fans are randomly scattered around the internet, and still don't know what's going on. Everything's way too hush hush. If there even is anything to be hush hush about.

Yeah, I encountered them in the Dell support forums, and a Yamaha keyboard forum.... of all places.

Quoted from xbrav

As far as Rainmaker goes, here's some stuff I've dug up:



Here's the stock value of Rainmaker from January of this year til now:

Yup, that's the other reason I was talking about....

Deleting my post and posting it again in full.... so it's read... the last part more so then the rest.

Quoted from Jester17

of course GlitchBob can't say what he knows though due to confidentiality.

Actually, aside from copy/pasting things, I've more or less said all that I know from Gertz when it comes to what is currently going on. I know a bit more about what's going on within RME, but it's from a different source, and may or may not be the cause of the delays... though IMO, it'd probably cause delays later on then those that seem to be occurring now.

Quoted from Jester17

heck, do they even have a writer?

As far as I know... no.

Quoted from LadyLazuli

Am I going crazy, or did I see somewhere on ReBoot.com that they were doing to surveys because they're acknowledging that there aren't as many comic viewers as there were people signed up on the site? I'm trying to find the exact quote but I can't seem to find it anymore. Did anyone else see that written anywhere? I must be going mad.

Sounds like you're talking about the newsletter about the survey, which not too many people got... even if the only indicator of that is how many said they didn't to those that did in the "Take the survey" topic.

ThePhantomSquee posted the email, this part is what I think you're referring to:

"We have been looking at the number of visits to the site; realized that thousands of people who signed up for this newsletter haven't been following the weekly webcomic."

You know why I think they haven't been visiting as much.... because RME haven't kept people up-to-date with newsletters (like FAN sites do... *cough*) or advertised the current happenings with ReBoot. I still randomly find fans online when I'm not even trying (though making my avatar on a forum I joined that one of a Guardian Icon helps trigger a memory or two), they haven't a clue that ReBoot is coming back.... that is until I inform them (why I bother to tell them at this point I don't know... why spoil what was a good memory with a sub-par web-comic?).

Yes, you read it, GB the one who in his opinion helped show Rainmaker that ReBoot could be profitable once more, or added on to whatever they were working on before hearing of this "revival"... which heck they could have just stumbled across it and then said "we've been considering it for a while now!", said he thinks the web-comic is sub-par (at best), and is not very happy with the way things are and have been going. He wishes at times that he never started this, though that'd mean he'd loose the memories of meeting various fans along with not only meeting Gavin Blair but developing a nice friendship with one of the four amazing men who contributed something really special to our childhoods (and teen/adulthoods for those who found it later on), and that's something he'd like to hold on to... even at the price of a what will probably be a movie (if it happens) that he sees once and leaves mid-way through the showing....


Hm, felt good to get that out. Doubt that anyone at RME (not counting Wizzywig, who's part of Z2H last i checked and sorry Wizzy, but the comic is just not doing it for me... not just talking about recent events, but zombie binomes.... meh... *yawn*) will email me asking why all the negativity, as far as I can tell they don't really look at the REAL community, just what's posted on NotYourChildhoodsReBoot.com.

But enough from me, more interested in what others think of this topic's contents...

Rainmaker just announced their quarterly profits last week... It might explain a lot.

FYI, a lot of Rainmaker's documents are posted on this site (very technical, but if you wanna dig through them)
http://www.sedar.com

I was also informed by a reliable source that there have been a series of lay-offs at RME.



I sincerely hope the fan artists working on the web comic are being paid for their efforts and not taken advantage of.
What an ironic twist of the knife that would be.

What?
The situation is just that bad? I was under the impression that the reason I didn't get any e-mails was my mad spam filter (things last alot longer in the Trash), untill I read about the survey thing, and then I thought "Ok, there's some glitch." As for the news, well, I figured that the I was just being too ignorant to notice any.
But this... this might be excusable in a webcomic (I'm sick, I've got a job e.t.c) but this is a part of their job! At the very least, they should let us know that they are very close to finding a new writer.
But this makes me wonder...how many other jobs are they taking on at this time?

Right.  I'm copying and pasting this to Reboot.cc (since Justice posted it there originally and it feels wrong to not post it there too), and Zeros2Heroes (because there's a better chance of Rainmaker reading posts on those blogs than here and on ReBoot.cc because we are but quiet little fan communities).

At first I thought the surveys were a really good idea, I have to admit.  But upon reflection... they really are just generic surveys.  And the topics, while "specific", are jumping around all over the place.  I'm failing to see how these kinds of questions would help them really.  Maybe they're trying to figure out how to advertise to the general public?  Is that why we're being asked what social networking sites we use?

I sincerely hope that's the case.  It was only happenstance that I actually came to learn about the whole revival project, and in all honestly I consider it to be an extreme (but very lucky) fluke that I happened to find GB's revival site only a couple of months before the whole Z2H business started.  With the exception of my family, no-one I know has any knowledge of what's going on.  A couple people periodically ask me "hey, did ReBoot ever do that webcomic?  How's it going?" but most people I know are like "hey, you're watching ReBoot!  I wish it didn't end" and know nothing of what's going on here.  I don't know how many people on the internet know about the webcomic and movies etc, but I would bet that most of the people don't know a thing about it.

We're not that much better off, really.  We've gotten a webcomic, yes, but... it's slipping further and further back into the fan-art/fan-fiction category for me.  I guess I've been too optimistic about this from the start and too stubborn to see this as a ship sinking further into failure.  To be blunt, it doesn't feel like ReBoot anymore.  Not the one I grew up with and loved as a kid.  It's really a shame to see that GB is not looking too optimistically anymore.  And it's kind of scary that someone involved in this posts on his facebook status that they are in fact lying to us (I feel VERY used at this).  And I don't know much about stocks, but it seems as though Rainmaker is slipping somewhere financially.

This worries me.  Very, very much.

You were right, Justice.  Those panels and such were just a publicity stunt to get the fans all pumped up about this.  I feel a little bit used.  It started out good, with the fan input (and by that I really mean that the only input Rainmaker took to heart and actually gave a crap about was which pitch we liked best, and upon further reflection they just did that to figure out which one would have the best chance to survive, not which one was the best pitch) getting fans involved, engaged and generally excited.  But in the end it was only a tiny voice of opinion.  And that tiny voice is shrinking down into more of a whisper.  The reason, the point of this whole discussion, is the lack of updates.

Wyzziwig and his team got it right.  They gave out updates constantly, and frequently.  ANY other fansite has it right; they post updates as soon as they receive them.  In hindsight I really wish that I had picked a fansite that gave out updates to emphasize the point in the latest survey, but I was just so flabbergasted at that question I botched it.  The reason they're loosing readership has been addressed before, and I'll state it bluntly.  Other than the fact that the webcomic is a spin-off and is not keeping the spirit of ReBoot alive, they are not releasing updates about the movie, box sets, anything.  So everyone is figuring "there's nothing new... why do I bother?"  And they drop it.  At this point I'm doubting that these fabled box sets are going to be released at all.  I just don't think it's going to happen.  I don't think they're going to see how the box sets will be received to go further in the movies; I don't think anything new is happening at all in either of those fronts.  Reason?  Lack of updates.

Rainmaker, I hope you're reading this somehow.  A fan is sincerely reaching out to you and giving you honest to goodness advice on what needs to happen, without the beat-around-the-bush survey method.  You need to reach out to the majority of the internet (Facebook highly recommended, mostly everyone uses it), and once you've grabbed them you need to keep them engaged by giving them updates, without the lies.  What little fans you have left are getting frustrated with your lack of updates.  This attitude is not a "no news is good news" situation.  It is the opposite; with no news the less-engaged fans will move on with more interesting things in their lives, and the more avid fans begin to suspect that things are not going well and worst yet not happening.  This will mean a decrease of fans.  Smarten up guys, or you're going to keep fading away and very shortly down the road people will go "hey, whatever happened to that whole plan to bring back ReBoot?" and the others will go "ReBoot?  Oh I remember that show... they were bringing it back?"

I don't even understand why Rainmaker is acting like they are. Sure, the economy is in the toilet, but animated programs are so much more easier to make. Look right here at the Java Hut - We have Dred making these amazing models that look like updated versions of the characters we grew up loving tremendously. In a nut shell, the show could be made for dirt cheap animation wise. The only money they have to spend is (aside from the electricity bill) is labour cost for people animation and writing (Are the comic writers getting paid?).

YTV will surely buy it, for obvious reasons. If Rainmaker can get a T.V deal in the states that starts with reruns, a toy deal will surely come with rising popularity and everything will be fine. Is it easy? Probably not, but if they were smart about it in the beginning, ReBoot would probably have premiered again on T.V last night.

"Retro" stuff is always popular. Technically ReBoot can be considered "retro" (I guess), and even so - everyone will look at old stuff that people love (How many T.V shows made into movies were made this decade?)

@Squall142

Actually, we don't need an american partner. If ReBoot is picked up by YTV, there is always the possibility of Teletoon to pick it up. They're running ReBoot on their Retro substation. Since September, they have only played Season 1 on a daily basis, and it hasn't been replaced! Isn't that enough evidence that they are interested?

Cartoon Network might sign on in the US. Problem is, the Saturday morning shows aren't a big hit anymore...

Quoted from ReBoot.com email

Why be involved?  

Because we have been listening and are planning to evolve ReBoot based on the your input. If helping shape ReBoot isn't enough of an incentive, we are planning an exclusive reward for all of you who complete the 10 surveys.

A reward? I'll be completing the surveys for that!

But yeah, i'm also starting to lose faith in the movies too. When did they originally say they were coming out? 2010? If so, I think we would have heard SOMETHING about them by now! Who knows, maybe they're just delaying them or something. But if they delay too long, Rainmaker is gunna start losing the trust of it's "dedicated fans".

Here is the email I sent last Saturday, and the response:

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Hi Paul,

Since the news about the movies along with ReBoot in-general has seemed to have slowed down the past few months, I was wondering if you could enlighten me as to where things stand at this point?

Thanks,
David

Quoted Text

Hi David�

Thanks for the note, hope all is well with you.  It may seem like things have slowed down on ReBoot, but it is actually quite the opposite.  We are aggressively developing the film, as well as creating new initiatives on reboot.com, many of which you�ve already seen, including the continuing web comic.  We are as determined as ever to make the film as good as it can be, which is why we are taking the necessary time in development to make sure that happens.

As always, thanks for your amazing support.

Kind regards,

Paul

The whole idea is heading down the drain  

I really feel as if we have been all duped, the hoods thrown over our eyes and we being led around and hearded like lost sheep. I use to be all excited for the comic and such, which turned to dread. Now I cringe everytime Reboot is mentioned in one form or another. This, unfortunetly has caused a part of my love for the fandom to die, and seek shelter in my other fandoms for the time being. I want to go back to the true memories of Reboot, back to the Reboot we all know and love. The Reboot my childhood grew up upon. Alas, I fear it is too late to turn back to those memories as they have been ruined...

@Everyone,

As Paul says, there is a lot of work going on.
The odd thing is that I think the issue is the communication between the comic creators and Rainmaker.

Wow... bummer. I'm sorry I'm not as articulate as everyone else. So all I can say is bummer.  

But I don't think we should give up, guys. I WANT them take an incredibly long time to make a rock'n movie worthy of the title "Reboot", rather than slap something together that turns out to be the final nail in the coffin. Honestly, if the whole problem is that they need inspiration for a story and are willing to take their time... than there is NO reason for Gavin's absence on the project (unless it is his own personal choice).

Maybe all these surveys are sincere attempts to direct them to the thriving Reboot fansites in order to get into the minds of the Reboot communities. I don't think we should write it off as something generic all together. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't... but I would prefer to give it my all to bring this show back (EVEN if it doesn't) instead of stopping short in my efforts. I would always wonder "if I had just gone the extra mile, taken that stupid survey and jump through Rainmaker's hoops,  maybe Reboot would have the amazing conclusion it deserves".

So I'm going to do that survey, I'll veiw the webcomic (even if I don't like it), and I'll jump through the hoops... just so I can enjoy the HOPE of Reboot's return and be able to say "I gave it my best". But honestly, if it doesn't come back and Rainmaker drops the ball, I'm just glad to have joined a community like this and to have met some pretty cool people who happen to have the same taste in television series as me.  

So feel free to express concerns... but don't let your hope and efforts slide. It's not over until the fat lady sings.  

Right, Lagger.
Let's do all we can to help, and be happy that at least we tried.

I'm getting a bit worried...

Remember Jim Su? What ever happened to him after all his hard work bringing the Art of ReBoot?

Quoted from xbrav

@Squall142

Actually, we don't need an american partner. If ReBoot is picked up by YTV, there is always the possibility of Teletoon to pick it up. They're running ReBoot on their Retro substation. Since September, they have only played Season 1 on a daily basis, and it hasn't been replaced! Isn't that enough evidence that they are interested?

Cartoon Network might sign on in the US. Problem is, the Saturday morning shows aren't a big hit anymore...

Actually, we DO need an American partner. If a show airs in Canada, it's pretty much only in Canada and doesn't make any money. If a show airs in the U.S, it is shown EVERYWHERE, making a lot of money if possible. If it weren't for the whole mess with Warner Brothers and Cartoon Network, American networks, ReBoot could (in theory) still be going today properly.

You've got a great point Lagger.  I definitely can't argue with that.  I'll still be reading the webcomic and answering the surveys... I just hope that it's not all for nothing.

xbrav:  Good question, I'm not entirely sure.  Seems like he's been posting somewhat infrequently in attempts to promote selling the book though.

Squall: Do we really need an American partner though?  If it's shown in Canada, eventually it might get shown elsewhere.  6-Teen and Total Drama Island come to mind as original Teletoon shows that I know were brought over to the States, having visited there and seen ads for them on Cartoon Network.  I'm not too picky.  If it gets picked up anywhere we'd be set really, we shouldn't be too picky.

Quoted from xbrav

I'm getting a bit worried...

Remember Jim Su? What ever happened to him after all his hard work bringing the Art of ReBoot?

Jim and the artbook are completely separate from what RME is doing.

Quoted from aSnowyEvening

Squall: Do we really need an American partner though?  If it's shown in Canada, eventually it might get shown elsewhere.  6-Teen and Total Drama Island come to mind as original Teletoon shows that I know were brought over to the States, having visited there and seen ads for them on Cartoon Network.  I'm not too picky.  If it gets picked up anywhere we'd be set really, we shouldn't be too picky.

You answered your own question really hah. It was brought over to the states like ReBoot has been all this time.

Besides, as I said in my last post, the show was ruined after the American channel screwed it over. It NEEDS an American channel or it's sunk. YTV only has so much money and audience.

Were you all also aware that Rainmakers movie division is falling apart at the seams over the fiasco known as "Escape from Planet Earth"?

didn'tthinkso

@Justice

I was unaware Rainmaker was fueling the project. I could've sworn they did "Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D", but maybe I'm mistaken.
I'm a little concerned for the company's future. After looking back at their AMAZING work on the "Da Vinci Code" project, I really thought they'd take off doing visual backdrops. It seems though that Rainmaker has completely ditched that concept, and gone back to lightly-textured renditions... It just isn't working for them financially. They have to get back into that big blockbuster market to survive. Mattel can't pay for it anymore

@GlitchBob

See I thought Jim, being a supporter and an awesome artist, would continue to show off his passion!

Quoted from Justice

Were you all also aware that Rainmakers movie division is falling apart at the seams over the fiasco known as "Escape from Planet Earth"?

didn'tthinkso

Oh I knew. Supposed to be their flagship so to speak, right?

Quoted from xbrav

@GlitchBob

See I thought Jim, being a supporter and an awesome artist, would continue to show off his passion!

I'm sure he would if he could! But he said that his license with Rainmaker has expired. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Quoted from Squall142

Oh I knew. Supposed to be their flagship so to speak, right?

It was... in the same sense that the Titanic was supposed to be the Flagship of the White Star line.

I think we all know how THAT one turned out.

Quoted from xbrav

@Justice

I was unaware Rainmaker was fueling the project. I could've sworn they did "Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D", but maybe I'm mistaken.
I'm a little concerned for the company's future. After looking back at their AMAZING work on the "Da Vinci Code" project, I really thought they'd take off doing visual backdrops. It seems though that Rainmaker has completely ditched that concept, and gone back to lightly-textured renditions... It just isn't working for them financially. They have to get back into that big blockbuster market to survive. Mattel can't pay for it anymore

I think you're getting your CIS (the company that used to be called Rainmaker) mixed up with your Rainmaker (the company that used to be called Mainframe.)  CIS is a visual effects company and it DID work on Da Vinci, back when it was still called Rainmaker.  Rainmaker is an animation company that didn't work on Da Vinci or Journey to the Centre of the Earth.

It's confusing, I know.  It still confuses people who live and work in the industry here in Vancouver.  Two well-established companies suddenly switched names. Silly really, you'd think they'd have been better off keeping the name Mainframe!  

Quoted from Justice

It was... in the same sense that the Titanic was supposed to be the Flagship of the White Star line.

I think we all know how THAT one turned out.

Okay, I just laughed so hard milk came out of my nose.  And I wasn't even drinking milk.  You have a fine wit, sir!

Not sure this should have gone into the 'news' forum Justice!  I'm fed up with all this obfuscation and baffling lack of news.

If they're going to do this then get a move on and let us know about the progress.  If not, let us know now so that ReBoot fans don't go through more years of hurt.

I won't say much more, other than what I've been saying for the last year. The interview at ComicCon was the most ridiculous waste of time (The part where Rainmaker's lackey Gertz was involved where he tacked himself onto the main event everyone REALLY came for with Gavin and co.). If all they intend to do to us major fans is waggle a ReBoot banner in front of us and think that's all it takes to get us and the public in general charging, they are HORRIBLY mistaken.

WE'RE NOT FRAGGING FIVE ANYMORE!!

Personally, they've shown me their failure at Good PR and how to maintain a fanbase. This survey was the latest slap in the face of "This keep you interested? It's totally unrelated, but we'll act like it's ReBoot, and you'll stay faithful in our broken promises! ;D" They picked this thing up, tied it to the back of their wagon and hit 80 in under ten seconds. At this rate, it'll fall apart behind them, and the fandom will fragment with today's ADHD audiences. It'll leave the larger fans, once again, in our tiny little groups, and the show could fall back into obscurity.

But hey, pissing off the fans is also a way to advertise. Not a good way though.

A recent comment on the web-comic:

Quoted Text

Jack64

Maybe they should have the old writers because reboot feels... different now. For some reason, it doesn't feel the same. Maybe it's because it been off the air too long?

Since I get the feeling from this and past comments that many thinks the original team is behind the web-comic and any other new "ReBoot" happenings (a misunderstanding which is very understandable as RME hasn't really made it clear just who or what is creating this new "ReBoot"), I felt it a good idea to inform those that hopefully see my comment:

Quoted Text

Jack64, if you see this comment here's why it feels different. The original co-creators aren't a part of this. And for the time being it looks like they won't be a part of the planned movies. So if this and anything else that comes from Rainmaker doesn't feel like the ReBoot you remember, it's because it's not.

Now, when it comes to the web-comic, I know they've said it won't have anything to do with the planned movies, but even so, I see it as a glimpse as to what could happen to the movies or any future plans for a new season.

Noobs, noobs...

There are still some of us left (like the owner of this website, for example) that lived through the extended torture of the first (and second) ReBoot purgatories, the "will it or won't it be back" water tortures.  The ABC BS, the Cartoon Network BS, the ultimate disappointment of the truncated S4...  If being part of this fandom teaches you anything, it's patience - and fatalism.  Whatever happens will happen, but never in a hurry.

The mistake so many made here was taking the bait and getting all hyped up on the basis of very little real evidence.  Rainmaker has never given anybody any real substance to believe there was meat to this story - just a lot of nebulous non-denials and teasers.  They were smart to make some fans part of their initial "relaunch" - it was a cheap and effective way of buying time to judge whether there was any new money to made from this franchise.  For if there's one thing our beloved ReBoot (and no one loves it more than I) has never been very good at, it's making money - just ask Irwin Toy.  Just ask MFE.  And in the end, Rainmaker will certainly never give us anything of substance without a firm belief that they'll get financial gratification out of it.  Thus it has always been, thus it will ever be - the only difference now is, we no longer have show runners with a vested and personal interest in selling the property to studios and TV networks.

Take the Webcomic for what it is - a sort of quasi-official illustrated fanfic, something the Japanese would think of as a studio-endorsed doujinshi.  Have fun with it and hope it's entertaining, but don't take it as hard evidence that anything further will ever come of the franchise.  ReBoot will live on in the hearts of the fans because there's no more loyal fan base, but TBH there just aren't enough of us.  And because Rainmaker has at least showed enough interest to string us along, sure - hold on to that faint hope that there might be movies.  Or TV movies, or web videos, or something...  Because if there's one thing 'Booters don't know how to do, it's give up hope.  But take it from one who has been down this road many times, don't let that hope become expectation - that can only end in frustration.  Those old words have never been more relevant - "Stay frosty".

Quoted from GuardianEnzo

Noobs, noobs...

*eyebrow?*

Quoted from GuardianEnzo

Noobs, noobs...

*eyebrow?*

Quoted from GuardianEnzo

our beloved ReBoot (and no one loves it more than I)

*eyebrow? again* *eyes GlitchBob and says nothing*

I agree, GuardianEnzo. We can't get our hopes up. Just in case the movies don't happen, if our hopes are too high, it'll just lead to more disapointment. I have been saying this from the beginning.

Quoted from GuardianEnzo

Noobs, noobs...

*eyebrow?*

*collective group eyebrow raising*



But I really do agree with GuardianEnzo. It's all happened before. It's just a little different this time. We don't really know what will come out of this, so we've just gotta be patient. And if nothing comes out of it, we have every right to rant.

No offense meant, People, but if you weren't here for the first crisis - the S2/S3 cliffhanger torture - you're a rookie.  If my choice of words offended, I apologize - but don't focus on that, it's the rest of the post that matters.

@GuardianEnzo

I remember the excitement when YTV's The Zone played the preview clip from Season 3, the scene with the CPUs escaping Megabyte in To Mend And Defend.
I may be a bit critical of it, but the fact is that the comic, which is endorsed essentially by Rainmaker, is definitely taking a direction that, from what I can understand, not a lot of ReBoot fans comprehend as "part of the reboot universe". I have one major concern that hopefully these surveys will reveal.

If I give amazing reviews on the comic to show interest, will Rainmaker decide to take the possible movies in this direction? If I tell them how I don't particularly like the direction it's going, will Rainmaker see that as a loss of interest in the entire project concept?

Of course I realize one little review won't topple the results, but I'm sure others may share my same opinion.
Either way, any return of ReBoot would be wicked awesome, even if the movies are a failure. I just know that teasers and tidbits are a marketing scheme. If Rainmaker has any intention on making these movies, they're really losing out on opportunities.

See The Java Hut community, the most active ReBoot community I am aware of, has 25-30 daily active members. Being active daily, we hear every up and down going on in the industry. This is how we get any news on progress. Heck, the only reason we get these updates is due to "insiders". But for many people out there, old ReBoot fans who do not invest their time to read into it, how do they know anything about it? Rainmaker is really missing the opportunity if they are looking to Direct-to-DVD this release, cause the 25-30 active users in this forum, and a few others (http://www.ReBoot.cc, http://www.ReBootRevival.com), will be the only people that will know it's out on DVD.

Quoted from GuardianEnzo

Those old words have never been more relevant - "Stay frosty".

Well put GuardianEnzo, well put  
I'm all for sitting back to wait and watch what happens next. It's just really unnerving sometimes when the same neverending crap gets thrown at your face over and over again  

Quoted from xbrav

@GuardianEnzo

I remember the excitement when YTV's The Zone played the preview clip from Season 3, the scene with the CPUs escaping Megabyte in To Mend And Defend.
I may be a bit critical of it, but the fact is that the comic, which is endorsed essentially by Rainmaker, is definitely taking a direction that, from what I can understand, not a lot of ReBoot fans comprehend as "part of the reboot universe". I have one major concern that hopefully these surveys will reveal.

If I give amazing reviews on the comic to show interest, will Rainmaker decide to take the possible movies in this direction? If I tell them how I don't particularly like the direction it's going, will Rainmaker see that as a loss of interest in the entire project concept?

Of course I realize one little review won't topple the results, but I'm sure others may share my same opinion.
Either way, any return of ReBoot would be wicked awesome, even if the movies are a failure. I just know that teasers and tidbits are a marketing scheme. If Rainmaker has any intention on making these movies, they're really losing out on opportunities.

See The Java Hut community, the most active ReBoot community I am aware of, has 25-30 daily active members. Being active daily, we hear every up and down going on in the industry. This is how we get any news on progress. Heck, the only reason we get these updates is due to "insiders". But for many people out there, old ReBoot fans who do not invest their time to read into it, how do they know anything about it? Rainmaker is really missing the opportunity if they are looking to Direct-to-DVD this release, cause the 25-30 active users in this forum, and a few others (http://www.ReBoot.cc, http://www.ReBootRevival.com), will be the only people that will know it's out on DVD.

Good point - do you fake enthusiasm for a project you don't like to make Rainmaker think they're backing a winner, or be honest and hope they take a change in direction?  I say be honest - I don't think they take the webcomic seriously from a content POV whatsoever - I think they're just using it as a barmoeter of how many folks are interested enough to follow it at all.  In other words, they don't care what your comment is - just whether you comment at all.

Plus, they would announce if they canceled the project. Their site still states:

Quoted Text

The ReBoot universe will be making a big come back. After a successful fan-generated comic book (www.reboot.com), we've decided to bring the world of Mainframe to the big screen. Created entirely in-house, we are now developing a ReBoot trilogy of feature films.

Quoted Text

if you weren't here for the first crisis - the S2/S3 cliffhanger torture - you're a rookie.

Careful what you say - that might not go down well here.  Some may take offence!

I don't know if this counts. But, I just want to say it. (I'm a noob so bare with me. Ignore this if you want.) Ok All I know Is that Kathleen Barr (Dott), is done With Edd edd nEddy she did Marie and Kevin for that show. it wrapped up in March/April.  I don't know if that is important. It might be or might not!

I know how annoying Noobs can be on other forums. BTW, when do the DVD COME OUT?

Quoted from 844

I don't know if this counts. But, I just want to say it. (I'm a noob so bare with me. Ignore this if you want.) Ok All I know Is that Kathleen Barr (Dott), is done With Edd edd nEddy she did Marie and Kevin for that show. it wrapped up in March/April.  I don't know if that is important. It might be or might not!

I know how annoying Noobs can be on other forums. BTW, when do the DVD COME OUT?

I don't find anyone annoying - in fact, newer fans have been making up the bulk of the postings around here, so kudos to them.  I just think a little historical prespective might help folks deal with the negative emotions that seem to be roiling when it comes to this "relaunch".

It was great to be engaged in the creative process.  I felt like we (the fans) were being given a wonderful opportunity to help shape the future of ReBoot.  A lot of us spent hours drawing, writing, brainstorming, and "making our clicks count".  

Now I find myself.... disappointed.  Yeah...that's it.  Disappointed.  The excitement I felt at being a part of the Z2H experiment is slowly drowning in a sea of disappointment.   HELP!!   Somebody throw me an emergency floatation device!

I'll fill out the stupid surveys, offer critique on the webcomic, and kid myself that my opinions aren't falling on "deaf ears".

We're getting the webcomic for FREE! I'm not gonna complain about it, that's for sure! I think it's a nice gift from Rainmaker. They could have just given us nothing at all you know. At least we get something (for FREE) while waiting for the movies. And even if you don't like the webcomic, we're not losing anything. But I really wish they would give us more information about what they're doing right now. There's something wrong when we have to get the news on fansites instead of on the official website.

Quoted from Adam

Not sure this should have gone into the 'news' forum Justice!

I think the Rainmakers current situation in the industry classes as news and while I admire the chirpy optimism of some of you here, but let's be realistic and look at it from a business perspective.  Rainmaker are in severe trouble... staff layoffs, share prices down the toilet, movie division in pieces.

We ARE all being taken for a ride, I don't know what else I can say to make some of you wake up and smell the daisy-wheels.

Quoted Text

No offense meant, People, but if you weren't here for the first crisis - the S2/S3 cliffhanger torture - you're a rookie.

We were though, many people here were. What you say makes sense, it's just a bit of how it's said. Like calling newcomers "rookies" and "noobs", and how you're the biggest fan...

It doesn't matter how many times we've been through this, the company itself has never screwed us over because the company was Gavin and Ian and Phil, etc. It was always the support companies that let them down. Now it's the company direct that's doing it to us by keeping us in the dark. That alone is bad news, and newcomer or longstanding icon-clicker, it's a kick to the proverbial ball bearings.

I repeat, WE'RE NOT FRAGGING FIVE! If it's honesty, we can handle it. I'd much more prefer the hard truth than empty promises.

Everyone in this fandom has a right to be angry at Rainmaker for behaving like a bunch of politicians who think the People are idiots easily strung along, instead of acting like a company that fully supports a show that is the foundation of the original company and who also respect their fanbase as intelligent and real people, not just necessary numbers on the monthly bar graph.

ReBoot isn't just a show, it's a group of people brought together through a single passion for a concept. You can't say that about Rainmaker, but you could have said that for Mainframe Entertainment. That's over, and the treatment of this is pissing people off.

Surprised or not, this whole concept and fandom as a whole has been greatly ignored until someone needed to poke us with a stick and get us to move another few meters. Where are we being lead?

(Yeesh I've been away for FAR to long)

I find it terrible and heart renching to hear any of this...ReBoot was my childhood but I've been taken for plenty of "rides" on these fake or empty promises. It's something I never like to know but I refuse to live in the dark anymore. If the comic crashes and burns then I'll watch it go down and in the end I can say that they'd given a good effort for what they had done. I won't hold my breath for anything else on this but I won't give up hope entirely because something in me will always be hoping that the show of my childhood will be completed.

Quoted from 652

Everyone in this fandom has a right to be angry at Rainmaker for behaving like a bunch of politicians who think the People are idiots easily strung along,

I think getting mad at Rainmker is jumping the gun a little. I'm not saying that I fully believe that all 3 movies will come out and be totally awesome, but I'm not going to start pointing fingers at Rainmker for being lying asciis. Unless I've missed something, there's no real evidence that Rainmaker has left this project behind, but there's also no evidence that the movies are in the process of being made. Sure, Justice has pointed out staff layoffs, share prices, etc., but it could still happen. Now, I don't want to look like a gullable fool for saying this; I'm still 50/50 at this point. All I'm saying is that Rainmaker needs to give us the truth so that we can know what to expect.

Quoted from Saboooom

All I'm saying is that Rainmaker needs to give us the truth so that we can know what to expect.

Exactly.

Even if it's "Sorry guys, but we've had to delay things due to cost factors" says to me that the project is very much alive and at the forefront of their expansion plans when the time is right to do so.  Yeah times are hard and getting the series back on the air is not an easy job.  But saying nothing about what's going on "behind the scenes" and providing meaningless surveys is just plain annoying and does absolutely nothing to enhance the credibility of the project.

As WebVirus pointed out... we're not five!

:-/

I'm up for a little truth myself. I don't care if it's bad news, it's the current state of things. Seriously, I want it to happen as much as any other die-hard fan, but with all I've seen even of their attempts to rally the public, it seems like some lame attempt to appear to be interested in our opinions. Desperation? They obviously can't afford real advertising, or is it just because I'm American, and the articles are only in Canada-based magz about the revival? Heck, last time there was a new season, I didn't find out for three years.

Quoted from 652

and the articles are only in Canada-based magz about the revival?

Pssssh, I wish magazines talked about ReBoot.

Aye, so much sexual tension going on here! You guys are way bigger reboot fans than I am. I mean, they're just mere surveys!

Well, I haven't been infected by the superhype for movies since the beginning of my first hearing of hints about them. I've learned my lesson during my videogame excitement era.

As for these laying off business and such. You don't have to worry too much about it. After all, the U.S. is in a recession. And it's a perfectly natural process of capitalism. There's a lot of factors that cause these recessions: a war happening somewhere out there, people's eagerness to spend money, gas prices, not spending money, too much reliance to credit, not enough spending money, too much military spedning, not spending money. As you can see, it wouldn't make sense if Rainmaker suddenly isn't doing anything.  Sure, it's sad to know that workers have to get fired. But they still have to be productive if they're going to survive. I doubt they'd drop any plans for Reboot movies just because of fewer workers. The economy will eventually go up anyway. So current financial situations isn't an issue (or at least that's what I think)

Tho, the lack of updates do tell me that they probably haven't passed the preproduction stage. And I honestly don't think finishing a movie in a year sounds even possible. But that's okay. If the Tron movie being released in the same year still poses a problem, I wouldn't mind waiting for another year after that.

*I'm kinda procrastinating right now as I do my research paper  in the middle of the night, so forgive me if what I say doesn't make sense.   But, i do understand the frustration*

Justice, my point was that there isn't actually any news to post!  I wonder what Gavin et al are thinking right now...

Quoted from Squall142

You answered your own question really hah. It was brought over to the states like ReBoot has been all this time.

Besides, as I said in my last post, the show was ruined after the American channel screwed it over. It NEEDS an American channel or it's sunk. YTV only has so much money and audience.

Corus Entertainment is a media empire here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corus_Entertainment#Assets

TV
    * CMT Canada (90%)
    * Cosmopolitan TV (67%)
    * Discovery Kids (Canada) (80%)
    * Food Network Canada (22.58%)
    * SCREAM (51%)
    * Telelatino (50.5%)
    * Teletoon (English / French) (both 50%)
    * Teletoon Retro (English / French) (both 50%)
    * Treehouse TV
    * YTV
    * Viva
    * W Network
& like 50 radio stations

Teletoon retro probabbly doesn't pay a dime to broadcast reruns since Corus invested a lot of money into Reboot

Im not giving up on ReBoot no news is good news as far as im concerned i dont think Rainmaker is stringing us along for what purpose?
ive been thru this before with ReBoot so its way to soon to tell if the movies are not being made yet i am looking forward to the box set!!!
right now its a tough time for a lot of companys and stocks im sure they are looking at all their projects and if ReBoot was cut or pushed back
im sure we will know soon enough. Reboot has come back from far worse. i would love to see updates on how the movies are doing but that is never done in movie making industry. we never got anything about season 4 when it was being made many times in alt.tv.reboot ppl didnt think they were even being made or how many episodes it would be only cause of marri and gavin visiting we knew anything at all. and looking back at season 3 there was even less info. i still have posts from season 4 creation i will find one and post it here

I have to disagree.
Gavin and Mairi gave us frequent updates on the progress of season four in alt.tv.reboot

Google groups still holds the threads.

So Justice, clarify this for me as I'm pretty forgetful.

Does Gavin or Ian or any of the original crew have their fingers in the project anymore? I keep getting confused since Rainmaker absorbed Mainframe as to if they were ejected.

Gavin and Ian... as far as I'm aware have not been contacted by Paul Gertz.
I'm sure GlitchBob will confirm that.  They left before the takeover.

Some of the animators are still there... the ever present Will Lau for example.
But most of them have moved on.

Quoted from hobojoe44

Corus Entertainment is a media empire here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corus_Entertainment#Assets

TV
    * CMT Canada (90%)
    * Cosmopolitan TV (67%)
    * Discovery Kids (Canada) (80%)
    * Food Network Canada (22.58%)
    * SCREAM (51%)
    * Telelatino (50.5%)
    * Teletoon (English / French) (both 50%)
    * Teletoon Retro (English / French) (both 50%)
    * Treehouse TV
    * YTV
    * Viva
    * W Network
& like 50 radio stations

Teletoon retro probabbly doesn't pay a dime to broadcast reruns since Corus invested a lot of money into Reboot

Well in Canada. You still need an American station to sustain it properly.

Well, none other than Chief Zero has posted a response to my blog (a re-post of an earlier post of mine on this thread).  I must say I'm getting surprised with the attention I've been getting on Zeros2Heroes.  o.0;  Every once in a while a little fan's voice is heard.  Quite nice...

But yeah, he requested that I posted his response here, and I am more than happy to oblige.  Beware, 'tis lengthy.  But good points are to be had.

Quoted Text

Hi,

I normally try not to involve myself in things like this, but I thought this one warranted a reply.  aSE, I hope you will take the time to repost this to the various ReBoot fan communities of which you are a part.

In the interest of brevity, I'd like to address the high level points, but I would be happy to have a more fulsome discussion with you (or any other ReBoot fans).

And I should point out, of course, that I am not speaking on behalf of Rainmaker in any official capacity.  But they've been a great partner to us and I feel that - since you're posting on Zeros 2 Heroes - I should say, well, something.

(1)  "The surveys are generic" - yep, so far.  The methodology my team uses goes from the general to the specific, so that we can hone our research into the most productive areas.  We need to start a little broad and then get more detailed based on the earlier responses from the 100's of people replying.

The surveys themselves will cover things that are online and things that are related to the movie.  Do as many as you like or as few.  What we want - what we have always worked towards - is involving you folks in our thinking.  But you don't have to play if you don't want to.    Just unsubscribe from our newsletter.

(2) The webcomic - I'll put my hand up on this one and take the blame.

Based on the first installment of "Paradigms Lost", there was a *lot* of fan feedback saying that they wanted more comic, more often.  So I recommended that we go for a weekly serial, with the understanding that the art would need to be stripped down a bit to meet deadlines.

For what it's worth, if Rainmaker decides to continue the online comic, I'll probably recommend that we go for fewer, juicier installments.  And then people will probably ask for more content, more often.  

But, again, for what's worth, we've been tracking the comments from fans reading the comic... and many like what they've been seeing.  So... <shrugs> all I can say is that we'll do our best.

(3)  Lies! - uh, no.

There is no shortage of people involved in this project who have stuck their neck out to get it started and keep it going.  I won't get all emotive on that point (though I might like to).

It's easy for people to post stuff anonymously about any company... that doesn't make what they say the truth.

And, for Rainmaker's part, if some of their answers have been a little general, I would suggest that this is because they *don't* want to mislead the fans.

In the entertainment business, things change *all the time* - better, I think, not to say anything concrete until you are reasonably certain that it will come to pass.  Really, would you want it the other way around?  Endless official rumors that change the narrative every two weeks?

(4)  Updates or lack thereof - this is a good point and something that we are working on very intently in tandem with Rainmaker.  To get what we're planning right, we - uh - need to survey ReBoot fans on certain points.  So, er, back to point (1) above.

To sum it all up, relaunching an entertainment franchise is *hard*.  It takes a *lot* of smart people, a*lot* of money and a *lot* of good timing.  You take one step forward (Cooksey will be the writer!) and you can find yourself taking one step back (Cooksey will not be the writer!).

Besides being pretty amazingly creative folks, I think the Rainmaker folks have been really commited to rebuilding ReBoot with your involvement.  If you're interested in being part of it, that's really great... but it won't be a perfect process.  Gosh, I make three major mistakes before breakfast each day... the trick is to keep making new and more interesting mistakes.

Feel free to drop me a line anytime, for any reason, via the PM system on this site.

- ChiefZero

EDIT:  As a side note, it's nice that a lot of members that have signed up previously but haven't posted much are coming back to contribute their 2 cents.

Well that is at least refreshing. I'm liking the idea that they are in fact working towards giving more updates. Of course, I'll believe it when I see it. Here's hoping...

> The surveys themselves will cover things that are online and things that are related to the movie.  
> Do as many as you like or as few.  What we want - what we have always worked towards - is involving
> you folks in our thinking.  But you don't have to play if you don't want to.    
> Just unsubscribe from our newsletter.

LOL!

Okay, 1: Patronize much?  (I think the US election has made my tolerance for phrases like 'you folks' pretty low.  It's sooooo Sarah Palin.)  

And 2: Our options seem to be either continue to drink the same bland, chalky Kool-Aid they've been serving up for at least a year now even though they say they've got Pepsi and Iced Tea coming soon or, Option b, bugger off!  Yay!  Way to nurture fan participation, you folks!  "We want your input, but if you're just going to get critical or a little impatient, go away!"

LMAO

SO I came in to see what was here and I'm kinda seeing something good and something not good.

I do catch the comic, but for my 2 cents, it's lame to update with just two pages. I know the drawing probably takes a while to do, but I would rather wait a month for a huge chunk of excitement, then just two pages of story that seem to...I don't know...it doesn't seem to be holidng and I'm actually kinda glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

I hate to say it, but I think we need to go the Get Smart route here. As a member of the GS mailing list for years, we've always wanted to get our favorite show on DVD and it finally happened a few years ago. We've also met the cast of the show and the producers and writers, etc and - if anyone else is a GS fan - we have our own little tribute on disc. The point is, we as fans did what we could and we got our wish.

Maybe someone from Rainmaker needs to actively sign up (and yes, we do have some crew on the GS list) and partake in either the forums here or at Mayhem or where ever. Heck, seeing as we have so many, it would be in the best interests of everyone if each member signed up for every RB forum and start a topic - What do you as fans what to see for Reboot? And then actually ASK us what we want to see. What did we like about Seasons 1-3 and why we all go WTF in Season 4. It seems simple cause it is simple.

I think they're making this too hard.

Quoted from 866

Maybe someone from Rainmaker needs to actively sign up (and yes, we do have some crew on the GS list) and partake in either the forums here or at Mayhem or where ever.

I've been saying this for so long. When the first survey came up on ReBoot.com I said (to what do you want to see happen (or something similar)) "Bring back the original writers and make up a page so we can have some form of direct contact with Rainmaker and Paul Gertz".

Prior to that I've been saying we need it in general. ReBoot has come back 5825923* times before, and Gavin and Ian were there and it came back successfully. Why? Someone with a PERSONAL investment was there. Sure, Paul Gertz could be the biggest fan ever, but he has no personal stake in it.

*Numbers are exaggerated

Seems like we grabbed someone's attention (Toner emailed me as well, though it was shortly before Thanksgiving and I was out of town for it, so haven't had time to write up a decent reply yet), which is good. Maybe it will help, maybe RME's PR department will get the hint.

Quoted Text

Toner emailed me as well, though it was shortly before Thanksgiving and I was out of town for it, so haven't had time to write up a decent reply yet

Who is Toner?

Quoted Text

Well in Canada. You still need an American station to sustain it properly.

That is... so not true. Many, many shows have gone years without any sort of American support. When the American support comes in it's usually because of the success of the show, rather than a need for a wider audience or more money.

Reboot season 3 comes to mind... no American audience for a year or two. 6Teen has one NOW, but it's been on the air for forever, it's not airing on Cartoon Network now or the N before because it NEEDED them.

In this case, to make a half-decently long season that advertisers and investors can actually support, they need more money than YTV can give them. Because CGI is very expensive. A lot more expensive than what 6Teen or Total Drama Island or whatnot cost to produce.

Quoted from 517

Who is Toner?

Matt Toner (aka Chief Zero), President of Z2H. He emailed me the following on Nov. 24th:

Quoted Text

Hope all is excellent in New York.

One of my team forwarded me this thread:

http://www.rbcorner.com/cgi-bin/eblah/Blah.pl?b-news/m-1227323070/s-0/

I can't / won't speak for Rainmaker, but what I will say, for my part, is "counter-productive".

The posters are certainly entitled to worries and concerns, etc but to question Rainmaker's motives/integrity in this way is not helpful.  There is *a lot* going on behind the scenes (of which Z2H is only a small part).  What I will say is that more will soon be revealed and ask for patience: relaunching an entertainment franchise (especially in today's economic circumstances) is not easy.

If you have any suggestions as to how I can impart this information and engage with yourself and the other "super fans", I am all ears.  We've made so much progress so far, that I would hate to see fan unity start to dissolve over, well, nothing.

Cheers,


--
Matt Toner

Quoted from ShadowAldrius

That is... so not true. Many, many shows have gone years without any sort of American support. When the American support comes in it's usually because of the success of the show, rather than a need for a wider audience or more money.

Reboot season 3 comes to mind... no American audience for a year or two. 6Teen has one NOW, but it's been on the air for forever, it's not airing on Cartoon Network now or the N before because it NEEDED them.

In this case, to make a half-decently long season that advertisers and investors can actually support, they need more money than YTV can give them. Because CGI is very expensive. A lot more expensive than what 6Teen or Total Drama Island or whatnot cost to produce.

Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit to much, but America broadcasting is always sought for by a lot of show runners.

And you also said that CGI is very expensive, so an American station is needed for it. It's been stated a billion times that because of the WB-CN deal, both AMERICAN BROADCASTING NETWORKS, ReBoot got shortened and effectively ruined its future.

Good lord! I take off for two weeks due to school crazyness and this is what I come back to!?
I really don't know what to say other than what has already been said before.
There's only a few things we can do at this point in time
We get on their ascii's
and we support support support

The fans need answers. And I agree that we deserve the truth.
it is a good thing that they are (hopefully) aware of this demand or at least this thread
But we can't give up hope yet. I mean the only reason why ReBoot keeps coming back is because of us. Now I know some people would prefer if season 4 never happened, but I'm glad we got it. Sure it had some flaws, but I can live with it.
I honestly don't know what to say. Lets not get all "negative Nancy" here.
I will say that I'm a bit disappointed in their communication, I hope its for the better.
I am going to remain positive, despite all that's happening (or not happening)
However...
If they cancel this, or don't put in the effort they promised, I swear to god...

*sigh*

A bunch of codemasters make a thingy that makes all the Viruses everywhere disappear just like that.  Ding dong, the Viruses are dead!  And so are inconvenient characters.

A great big ball of bodies can command just about all the system resources.  Megabyte drapes himself in curtains and bows to it.

A goofy-looking centipede lady claims to be the all-powerful source of the code and offers to power Bob up, like a video game boss doling out upgrades.

A freakin' COWBOY makes a splashy entrance and is suddenly in charge because Matrix has turned all wimpy.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have Mary Sue sign.  I've tried to be supportive and optimistic, but this is getting further and further away from the ReBoot that we all know and love.  It's been a while since I could see this as anything other than a fanfic.  That's all right, I guess, but it frightens me to think that the movies, if they get made at all, may suffer from the clear lack of understanding of ReBoot that we've seen here.  Once a week on a website is one thing.  On a big movie screen - that would hurt.

If I thought it would any good at all I would beg Rainframe to go back to the source.  Get the original creators involved in the movies, if they are still in the works.  How else are they going to get writers who can actually write ReBoot and get it right, as opposed to the "Oh, it's good enough, who cares about fiddly little details like continuity and getting characters on model and in character and not eclipsing them with Mary Sues?" approach we've been seeing lately.

Finally, has anyone else found it ominous that the only Official ReBoot site on the web is only about the revival?  The old site, with all the classic ReBoot material that fans of the TV series would go to see, is nowhere to be found, at least at ReBoot.com.  It's like Rainframe has unpersoned it.  "Forget the old ReBoot, here's the new!"  NO.  Give us the material from the old show.  Give us DVDs!  Don't count on a haphazard webcomic to completely replace the TV show in our hearts, because that will never, never happen.

<./rant>

Quoted from Slackbot

*sigh*

A bunch of codemasters make a thingy that makes all the Viruses everywhere disappear just like that.  Ding dong, the Viruses are dead!  And so are inconvenient characters.

A great big ball of bodies can command just about all the system resources.  Megabyte drapes himself in curtains and bows to it.

A goofy-looking centipede lady claims to be the all-powerful source of the code and offers to power Bob up, like a video game boss doling out upgrades.

A freakin' COWBOY makes a splashy entrance and is suddenly in charge because Matrix has turned all wimpy.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have Mary Sue sign.  I've tried to be supportive and optimistic, but this is getting further and further away from the ReBoot that we all know and love.

<./rant>

LOL!  Nicely put, Slack!

*applauds*

Thank you, Slackbot.  You've said it more eloquently than I ever could.  I agree with every point that you've made.


I'd like to add my two cents worth concerning Matt Toner's comment:

Quoted Text

" We've made so much progress so far, that I would hate to see fan unity start to dissolve over, well, nothing."

I don't believe that fan unity is going to dissolve.  

This once, I am confident that I can speak for ALL fans:  

We, the fans of ReBoot, wish for Rainmaker to have the greatest success in bringing ReBoot back to the forefront of computer animated entertainment.  May Rainmaker make oodles of cash from the dvds, action figures, playsets, bedroom sets, video games, coloring books, clothing, costumes, etc that both old and new fans are going to buy for themselves and their children.

I can understand the Powers That Be not being upfront with the nitty-gritty details.  Personally, I don't need to know exactly how it's going to be done.  I just need the reassurance that the movies, when they come in to being, aren't going to be like the pitches that were rejected a z2h.

Thank you, Candy & Mister Laughing Monkey!

Regarding "fan unity dissolving over nothing" - is he serious?  There is no question of the fandom collapsing.  We 'Booters have hung together for a long time between seasons, and we'd still be here if there were no ReBoot restart.  We'd still be demanding a 4-season DVD box set, for one thing.  The ReBoot fandom community is not in danger at all!  The question is whether Rainframe will alienate the fandom at large.  Over nothing?  Well, over no signs of progress on movies, DVDs, etc, yeah.  They promised all sorts of things, and claimed that the movies were "in production," and then they lose the writer and say nothing more for months.  The only thing we're getting on the ReBoot front is the webcomic, and it's been less and less satisfying lately.  That "Put up or shove off" letter ain't exactly going to endear the masses either.

Well said Slack and good point about the website!
And While I agree that we have to be supportive, as I have said before, there are definitely limits!

I'm going to be writing up a reply to Matt Toner. If anyone has any comments/points/suggestions they'd like me to toss in the reply, please PM me them. I'll probably also be passing on the email to Gertz as well, as someone in RME needs to see what's going on too.